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November 12, 2009

Comments

Yes!!!

Amen!

I found this sermon by the Archbishop of Canterbury to be particularly insightful. I've never thought about the saints in quite the way he frames the matter. And I love this section:

"Witnesses establish the truth by giving evidence. It really is as simple as that. When we celebrate the Saints, we celebrate those who have given evidence, who have made God believable by how they have lived and how they have died. The saints are the people who recognise that arguments will finally not win the day. God does not make himself credible by argument. God does not respond to our doubts, our intellectual querying, our uncertainty, by delivering from Heaven a neatly annotated list of logical propositions with which we cannot disagree. (I'm afraid that Professor Dawkins can bang on the doors of Heaven as long as he likes if that is what he expects to happen.) God deals with us by our life and a death, by Jesus. And God continues to deal with us by lives and deaths that make him credible, that make Jesus tangible here and now."

Amen!

Thanks Bryan - I was very taken with that section too. But I was blown away by the implications that Rowan draws from the verse of Hebrews he highlights. I guess it's an obvious point once it's pointed out, and one that seems totally consistent with the larger philosophical super-structure of Hebrews.

The idea that we inextricably bound to each other, across all time and space, seems to me to be a perfect theological example of the phenomenon after which I named this blog. Perhaps that verse from Hebrews (or something from Paul about being all part of the same body) should be my personal prooftext as a blogger.

Grin.

Sounds rather a onerous task fraught with a struggle between the joy of ministry and the compulsion to bring as many to Christ as possible. Is it quality or quantity? How many new Christians does it take to perfect a saint?

Having read your post and the sermon excerpt from the ABC earlier, I later came across this tidbit in Origen from his De Principiis:

"And since many saints participate in the Holy Spirit, He cannot therefore be understood to be a body, which being divided into corporeal parts is partaken of by each one of the saints; but he is manifestly a sanctifying power, in which all are said to have a share who have deserved to be sanctified by his grace. "

I am particularly struck by the idea that the saints "participate" in the Holy Spirit. This "bi-directional" view is one worth a bit of contemplation, I think.

Thanks Jeffrey for that bit of Origen. I think the bi-directional relationship with God is also implied in our incorporation into the body of Christ, and Christ's full participation in the Godhead.

God's willingness to bring our humanity into the divine presence and the divine substance into our person is I think exactly what you're describing as a bi-directional relationship.

That's a great question Kristin - my immediate response is that it takes all of us and one of us to perfect a saint. I don't think it's our need to bring people to faith so that we get a passing mark, I think it's more about our desire to participate in the lives of the saints that adds to their credibility.

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